Alright guys, let's break it down. Telethrowers. I fucked them up. I'M SORRY. I tried to streamline the rules a bit, and just made a mess of things.
Wall-jumping is stupid and not supported by the Rules As Written. However, without it, the major feature of the map is unplayable/unbelievable.
How about this mind-match change: Creatures moving onto the telethrowers may choose to not trigger its effects.
So, in effect, if you walk or shift or crawl yourself onto a telethrower, you may choose to just hang out. However, if Brendan's Wizard slides you or Marc's Barbarian bull rushes you, you get thrown right around. Or, hey, maybe someone is setup as a roadblock and you choose to use the telethrowers as a means of quick movement.
This is what I had in my head for telethrowers(hence form of the willow sentinel):
Telethrowers can be awesome. I believed them to be a hassle to all the players. The telethrowers are meant to stop players from running and forcing them(in 3 of 4 telethrowers) to stop, make an athletics check without a running start(much more difficult) and not be able to run through corners.
I have no problem with the ruling, if that is your final decision.
Here is how I thought they worked, and it seemed fine to me: when you step on a telethrower for any reason [on purpose, forced movement], then they immediately triggered and sent you to the next one, which causes you to go to the next one and so on until you either hit a blocking obstacle [such as another character or animal companion], or you took a swim in the Chasm and died.
so, if a dungeoneer wanted to get past the lower right telethrower, they would need help from a teammate to block movement, or stand on the key so they could go through the portal. It looked like to me that there was a strong emphasis on restricted movement and team tactics, making this one of the more difficult maps to succeed on, by design.
were the telethrowers intended for some other design purpose? what was the original wording on the telethrowers, and how has the wording evolved since?
The original wording allowed creatures to ignore the sliding effects on their turn if they treated the telethrower as difficult terrain. In an attempt to chop out a few words, I just removed that line, thinking
1). the difficult terrain designation didn't really affect much in play 2). oh ho, aren't I clever! Ceatures can just jump over.
So, I have interpreted the original intent as "these telethrowers are able to be avoided if carefully moved past/through" and just goofed on the wording
Ah. I saw the difficulties with corner jumping and assumed it was done that way on purpose to restrict movement. The original wording makes sense, maybe "you may spend one extra square of movement to negate this effect?"
Except: our team made a tactical choice to utilize the Warden's "Form of the Willow Sentinel." This was a choice that made sense as a way to gain advantage over the other team; our guy could pass over the telethrowers, and they couldn't. Changing the rules mid-match and mid-tournament completely negates that tactical choice. As has been the precedent on other maps: I think we should keep the map as-is for the duration of this match, then update it for future matches to reflect the intended function. "As-is" being: the telethrowers always trigger; you can jump over them if there is not a hard corner blocking your path.
Woah, hang on, one other problem. How did Cookie Monster move that far? That's 9 squares of movement. Even assuming he "jumps" it's still 2 hard corners, and even running I don't see how a Dwarf could do it.
Steven neglected to mention (for all of us who have not memorized the DDi Compendium) that his attack prayer Angelic Alacrity grants a 3 square shift before the attack.
Lord Xann sees the delicious specimen known only as Cookie Monster, and decided he will be his first meal. All of that fur needs to be singed off first, and a good roasting would help too. Ah the edge of that pit is a good place...
Tech:
Move: Walk to E11. Standard: Hypnotism vs Cookie Monster (5)+6 vs will, plus heroic effort=15 Slide him up to 5 (-1) to F6 for a telethrow!
He slides to F14 and critically saves going over the edge!
Minor: Magic Missile vs Cookie Monster for 7 damage, leaving him at 23.
OOC: First off, apologies for not listing the shift effect in my power last round. I dun goofed there. And I don't have the entire compendium memorized...yet... Second, Hypnotism is a slide 3, where did those two extra squares of movement come from? Thirdly, I believe my dwarf gets a saving throw to avoid going prone, which Roll20 gives as (15). Fourthly, I get a powerup (5) of haste
Dwarves get a saving throw to avoid being [knocked] prone, specifically by an [attack]. In this case, you were being forced into hindering terrain, and made a saving throw to avoid this, which caused you to [fall] prone in that square. I am open to being proven wrong, this is just the way I read it.
Oscar’s still jetlagged. So he tells fluff “Go away”
Tech: Standard: attack Kathra w/ Valorous Smite (20)+8=28 Crit for (8)+(8)+5=21 Move: to J3. Bring it Kathra you BIATCH, just hit me with your best OA!
Checked the books to verify and Kevin is absolutely correct: Stand Your Ground only provides a benefit against attacks. The prone effect we are talking about here is a result of a saving throw and a terrain effect.
for Kathra: Opportunity Attack: (11)+6 vs. AC 20; miss!
The six-fingered god eyes the path that the devourer of cookies took, and a wicked grin spreads across Asar-Segt's face. Taking a moment to catch his breath through raspy lungs, Asar-Segt moves up into the telethrower and flies towards the cookie monster.
Tech Standard: Second Wind - no longer dazed & at 6HP Minor: Curse Cookie Monster Move: Run to F6 and the tele-thower, crashing into cookie monster. If Cookie Monster succeeds on the saving throw against falling into the pit, continue movement onto G13, and do it all again. Repeat as necessary until Cookie Monster fails his saving throw (Cookie Monster will need to make up to 5 saving throws) - The first time he fails his saving throw and goes into the pit, Asar-Segt will use his remaining movement, if any, to get out of the way of the telethrower path (I'm still unclear as to whether or not we can move past the telethrowers without triggering them, but if it's possible & I have the movement left I'd like to go to H14. If I have 2 squares of movement or less, I'll move onto E13)
Cookie Monster gets an OA when Asar-Segt tries to move again (14)+2+2(CA)-2(prone) = 16 hits! (2)+(2)+2 = 6 damage, dropping Asar-Segt back to 0 and dazed. Is he allowed to continue his movement after being dazed?
Actually, it's going to miss. Asar-Segt has a +2 to defenses from second wind, and a +2 from concealment since he moved more than 3 squares, giving him an AC of 17. (Sorry, should have included those details in the post above)
In that case, Cookie Monster makes his next three saving throws, with a 13 as his lowest save. Unfortunately, OAs are only once per turn. Unfortunately-er, Asar-Segt has hit mach speed moving so far in one turn and has dealt a total of 25 damage (the telethrower damage isn't listed as only being once per turn and that number includes my previous post), dropping Cookie Monster to -2 and granting no saving throw for the 5th push, tossing him into the Chasm but leaving Asar-Segt with no movement remaining.
And with Cookie Monster's death, the Succubus Queen cries out in the most sensual of agony/ecstasy, the piercing shrieks causing many an ear to bleed. 1 thunder damage to all!
The worst off is now Kathra, down to just 2 HP. Interestingly, Kathra has a very good chance of death via orgasm scream. YOU DON'T SEE THAT KIND OF SHIT WRITTEN VERY MUCH IN D&D!!!
"Oh look, Bert's pet pigeon Bernice has come to help out!" As Ernie exclaims this, lo and behold, the pigeon does fly over, depositing heaps of guano on Kathra and Lyth. The distraction is enough for Lyth to take a swipe at Ernie, but she slips on the bird shit right into the Racetrack!
Yet again, rotten ducky goo sprays out on most of the Pantheon, as Ernie streaks past Lyth, nabbing a Chaos Device in the process!
[Tech] Standard: Magic Stones against Lyth (provoking OA) and Kathra (who has cover) Attack vs Lyth:(19)+2 = 21 vs Reflex 13 - HIT! Attack vs Kathra:(12)+0 vs Reflex 11 - HIT! Hit:(3)+2 = 5 damage (no point in pushing)
Lyth has 9 Temp HP left, and Kathra drops to -3 HP, activating... Free Action: Shadow Warp Trigger: drop someone to 0 Effect: slide Lyth to K-6 Move: Ducky to H-8, then I-9, activating Demon Mouths 1, 2, and 3. Then, Ernie runs to G-5, through the powerup in J-5 Effect: 10 fire and necrotic damage to Xann, Asar-Segt, and Lyth
Lyth has no temps left, at 22 HP. Xann is at 12 HP, and Asar-Segt is at -5 HP. Ernie picks up (3) - Chaos Device!
Minor: if Lyth does 9 or more damage to Ernie, Healing Word on Ernie Effect: heals 7+1d6 damage
Elmo starts his turn, amazingly, alive!
ReplyDeleteAlright guys, let's break it down. Telethrowers. I fucked them up. I'M SORRY. I tried to streamline the rules a bit, and just made a mess of things.
ReplyDeleteWall-jumping is stupid and not supported by the Rules As Written. However, without it, the major feature of the map is unplayable/unbelievable.
How about this mind-match change: Creatures moving onto the telethrowers may choose to not trigger its effects.
So, in effect, if you walk or shift or crawl yourself onto a telethrower, you may choose to just hang out. However, if Brendan's Wizard slides you or Marc's Barbarian bull rushes you, you get thrown right around. Or, hey, maybe someone is setup as a roadblock and you choose to use the telethrowers as a means of quick movement.
Agreed?
This is what I had in my head for telethrowers(hence form of the willow sentinel):
DeleteTelethrowers can be awesome. I believed them to be a hassle to all the players. The telethrowers are meant to stop players from running and forcing them(in 3 of 4 telethrowers) to stop, make an athletics check without a running start(much more difficult) and not be able to run through corners.
I have no problem with the ruling, if that is your final decision.
Here is how I thought they worked, and it seemed fine to me: when you step on a telethrower for any reason [on purpose, forced movement], then they immediately triggered and sent you to the next one, which causes you to go to the next one and so on until you either hit a blocking obstacle [such as another character or animal companion], or you took a swim in the Chasm and died.
Deleteso, if a dungeoneer wanted to get past the lower right telethrower, they would need help from a teammate to block movement, or stand on the key so they could go through the portal. It looked like to me that there was a strong emphasis on restricted movement and team tactics, making this one of the more difficult maps to succeed on, by design.
were the telethrowers intended for some other design purpose? what was the original wording on the telethrowers, and how has the wording evolved since?
The original wording allowed creatures to ignore the sliding effects on their turn if they treated the telethrower as difficult terrain. In an attempt to chop out a few words, I just removed that line, thinking
Delete1). the difficult terrain designation didn't really affect much in play
2). oh ho, aren't I clever! Ceatures can just jump over.
So, I have interpreted the original intent as "these telethrowers are able to be avoided if carefully moved past/through" and just goofed on the wording
Ah. I saw the difficulties with corner jumping and assumed it was done that way on purpose to restrict movement. The original wording makes sense, maybe "you may spend one extra square of movement to negate this effect?"
ReplyDeleteExcept: our team made a tactical choice to utilize the Warden's "Form of the Willow Sentinel." This was a choice that made sense as a way to gain advantage over the other team; our guy could pass over the telethrowers, and they couldn't. Changing the rules mid-match and mid-tournament completely negates that tactical choice. As has been the precedent on other maps: I think we should keep the map as-is for the duration of this match, then update it for future matches to reflect the intended function. "As-is" being: the telethrowers always trigger; you can jump over them if there is not a hard corner blocking your path.
Counteroffer: We keep the map as-written, delete any comments that say otherwise (to avoid confusion), and leave Ernie's Round 01 actions as-is.
DeleteAcceptable?
....chalking Ernie's "illegal" actions as confusion about the terrain and just keep playing.
DeleteYep, that works for me. Others' input?
DeleteI'm cool to continue.
DeleteWoah, hang on, one other problem. How did Cookie Monster move that far? That's 9 squares of movement. Even assuming he "jumps" it's still 2 hard corners, and even running I don't see how a Dwarf could do it.
ReplyDeleteSteven neglected to mention (for all of us who have not memorized the DDi Compendium) that his attack prayer Angelic Alacrity grants a 3 square shift before the attack.
DeleteSpeak with your words.
Ah, yep, that'd be enough. Thanks for the clarification
Delete!!! DELAY-GIB !!!
ReplyDeleteAll creatures suffer ear-bleeding pain (and 1 thunder damage) as the Succubus Queen bellows forth an orgasmic shriek of unparalleled ecstasy.
Kathra now takes its turn.
Must take my new heart and sing with the joy it brings to me. Come and join me Oscar in this dance of death.
ReplyDeleteMinor: Second Wind
Minor Form of the Willow Sentinel
Standard: Strength of Stone
rolling 1d20+6
(9)+6 = 15 Miss Vs. AC 20
"Why...won't...you...die?!"
ReplyDelete[Tech]
Move: K4>K5>J5>K5>K4>K3>L3>K3 (run)
Ernie gets an OA for me moving away from him.
I moved across the power-up square, get (7) Protection, gain 15 THP. (After the OA)
Standard: Healing Strike on Ernie: (8)+7+2(CA)=17 vs. AC 20, miss.
~fin~
Opportunity Attack: (9)+3 vs. AC 18; miss!
ReplyDeleteLORD XANN THUNDER-TYRANT now may go!
Lord Xann sees the delicious specimen known only as Cookie Monster, and decided he will be his first meal. All of that fur needs to be singed off first, and a good roasting would help too. Ah the edge of that pit is a good place...
ReplyDeleteTech:
Move: Walk to E11.
Standard: Hypnotism vs Cookie Monster
(5)+6 vs will, plus heroic effort=15
Slide him up to 5 (-1) to F6 for a telethrow!
He slides to F14 and critically saves going over the edge!
Minor: Magic Missile vs Cookie Monster for 7 damage, leaving him at 23.
OOC: First off, apologies for not listing the shift effect in my power last round. I dun goofed there. And I don't have the entire compendium memorized...yet...
ReplyDeleteSecond, Hypnotism is a slide 3, where did those two extra squares of movement come from?
Thirdly, I believe my dwarf gets a saving throw to avoid going prone, which Roll20 gives as (15).
Fourthly, I get a powerup (5) of haste
The enchantment mage specialty adds +2 to the movement.
DeleteDwarves get a saving throw to avoid being [knocked] prone, specifically by an [attack]. In this case, you were being forced into hindering terrain, and made a saving throw to avoid this, which caused you to [fall] prone in that square. I am open to being proven wrong, this is just the way I read it.
DeleteMap updated! Rolls verified! Oscar has 4-1/2 hours left to post before the AUTO-GIBBING!!!
ReplyDeleteOscar’s still jetlagged. So he tells fluff “Go away”
ReplyDeleteTech:
Standard: attack Kathra w/ Valorous Smite (20)+8=28 Crit for (8)+(8)+5=21
Move: to J3. Bring it Kathra you BIATCH, just hit me with your best OA!
Kathra takes a swing and misses due to the vacuous hole made by Oscars open mouth.
DeleteOpportunity action
rolling opportunity attack
rolling 1d20 + 6
(5)+6 = 11 Miss.
Checked the books to verify and Kevin is absolutely correct: Stand Your Ground only provides a benefit against attacks. The prone effect we are talking about here is a result of a saving throw and a terrain effect.
ReplyDeletefor Kathra:
Opportunity Attack: (11)+6 vs. AC 20; miss!
ASAR-SEGT starts his turn ... dead on his feet!
He is dazed.
The six-fingered god eyes the path that the devourer of cookies took, and a wicked grin spreads across Asar-Segt's face. Taking a moment to catch his breath through raspy lungs, Asar-Segt moves up into the telethrower and flies towards the cookie monster.
ReplyDeleteTech
Standard: Second Wind - no longer dazed & at 6HP
Minor: Curse Cookie Monster
Move: Run to F6 and the tele-thower, crashing into cookie monster. If Cookie Monster succeeds on the saving throw against falling into the pit, continue movement onto G13, and do it all again. Repeat as necessary until Cookie Monster fails his saving throw (Cookie Monster will need to make up to 5 saving throws)
- The first time he fails his saving throw and goes into the pit, Asar-Segt will use his remaining movement, if any, to get out of the way of the telethrower path (I'm still unclear as to whether or not we can move past the telethrowers without triggering them, but if it's possible & I have the movement left I'd like to go to H14. If I have 2 squares of movement or less, I'll move onto E13)
Roll20 offers up an interesting twist here
DeleteCookie Monster takes 5 damage
Saving throw: (17)
Cookie Monster gets an OA when Asar-Segt tries to move again
(14)+2+2(CA)-2(prone) = 16 hits!
(2)+(2)+2 = 6 damage, dropping Asar-Segt back to 0 and dazed. Is he allowed to continue his movement after being dazed?
Actually, it's going to miss. Asar-Segt has a +2 to defenses from second wind, and a +2 from concealment since he moved more than 3 squares, giving him an AC of 17. (Sorry, should have included those details in the post above)
DeleteFriggin' Warlocks...
DeleteIn that case, Cookie Monster makes his next three saving throws, with a 13 as his lowest save. Unfortunately, OAs are only once per turn. Unfortunately-er, Asar-Segt has hit mach speed moving so far in one turn and has dealt a total of 25 damage (the telethrower damage isn't listed as only being once per turn and that number includes my previous post), dropping Cookie Monster to -2 and granting no saving throw for the 5th push, tossing him into the Chasm but leaving Asar-Segt with no movement remaining.
Asar-Segt's Darkspiral Aura increases by 1.
DeleteAnd with Cookie Monster's death, the Succubus Queen cries out in the most sensual of agony/ecstasy, the piercing shrieks causing many an ear to bleed. 1 thunder damage to all!
ReplyDeleteThe worst off is now Kathra, down to just 2 HP. Interestingly, Kathra has a very good chance of death via orgasm scream. YOU DON'T SEE THAT KIND OF SHIT WRITTEN VERY MUCH IN D&D!!!
"Oh look, Bert's pet pigeon Bernice has come to help out!" As Ernie exclaims this, lo and behold, the pigeon does fly over, depositing heaps of guano on Kathra and Lyth. The distraction is enough for Lyth to take a swipe at Ernie, but she slips on the bird shit right into the Racetrack!
ReplyDeleteYet again, rotten ducky goo sprays out on most of the Pantheon, as Ernie streaks past Lyth, nabbing a Chaos Device in the process!
[Tech]
Standard: Magic Stones against Lyth (provoking OA) and Kathra (who has cover)
Attack vs Lyth: (19)+2 = 21 vs Reflex 13 - HIT!
Attack vs Kathra: (12)+0 vs Reflex 11 - HIT!
Hit: (3)+2 = 5 damage (no point in pushing)
Lyth has 9 Temp HP left, and Kathra drops to -3 HP, activating...
Free Action: Shadow Warp
Trigger: drop someone to 0
Effect: slide Lyth to K-6
Move: Ducky to H-8, then I-9, activating Demon Mouths 1, 2, and 3. Then, Ernie runs to G-5, through the powerup in J-5
Effect: 10 fire and necrotic damage to Xann, Asar-Segt, and Lyth
Lyth has no temps left, at 22 HP. Xann is at 12 HP, and Asar-Segt is at -5 HP. Ernie picks up (3) - Chaos Device!
Minor: if Lyth does 9 or more damage to Ernie, Healing Word on Ernie
Effect: heals 7+1d6 damage
Opportunity Attack: (4)+7 vs. AC 20; miss!
ReplyDeleteCookie Monster Respawns at Location (3).
Cookie Monster flails around, finding a hidden stash of sweets, but it leaves his hands too messy to accomplish much.
ReplyDeleteTech
Move K3-J3-I3-J3-K3, activating trap (5)
Minor: Oath on Lyth
Standard: Angelic Alacrity
Effect: Shift to powerup (7) for 15 THP
Attack: (10)+6 vs AC misses
Elmo respawns in (2)
!!! THUS ENDS ANOTHER EXCITING ROUND OF FOURTHCORE TEAM DEATHMATCH !!!
ReplyDeleteJoin us in the next installment, Round 03!
http://www.fourthcoreteamdeathmatch.com/2013/02/play-by-post-match-19-round-03.html